Subject: INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) 485 views

Anna Staff Posts: 2,716 Hogwarts House: Ravenclaw Who is YOUR Doctor?: 6 (Colin Baker 84-86) Current F1 Driver?: Fernando Alonso	INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) Aug 30, 2014 23:53:24 GMT Post by Anna on Aug 30, 2014 23:53:24 GMT Yeah I guess I see where you are coming from. Other then the line at the end I really didn't get much of a pro/anti vibe from the episode anyway. There are hell of a lot of episodes that have military in them like Nightmare in Silver (which I watched today) so I just took them to be random people really. There have been a lot of "forces" thrown towards the Doctor in recent years so they've just become part and parcel of Doctor Who. Plus as you said it isn't like in the last few years Eleven hasn't made friends with hell of a lot of warriors of one kind or the other. I personally felt he got owned by the soldiers in the Angels two parter, the Pasternosters were introduced as his personal army, Rory was a Centurion even if he was a nurse by nature, you had Lorna Bucket who died for him and so many others. Lets not forget River Song! I just don't think it has been the best start to the season to be honest. Deep Breath felt muddled and now this episode feels completely disjointed. The episode has no real logic to it and the more I watch the more I think they've gone the wrong way. They are focusing the show too much on the Doctor himself. I don't mean arc wise but story wise, too many "moments" that everyone is gushing about that just boil down to "am I a good man?" "I don't know" "but am I good?" "I don't know"... Danny could be a good thing or a bad thing but I'm afraid I feel it'll be bad. Why? Because everyone seems to be so hung up on the fact we've got the amazing Peter Capaldi in the show that everything actually physically needs to be about him and not the Doctor or the adventure or the companion or the fun but him. And I'm sorry but I had never even heard of Capaldi before he was announced as the Doctor and I've only ever seen him in that zombie movie from last year or the year before (his short cameo was forgettable) and as the Cardinal in the Musketeers (which he ruined every scene he was in he was so bland!) That makes me in the wrong though because I should be begging at his feet to be in this terrible show I love so much and isn't he so much better then Eleven who only sat around making jokes and acting like a baby.... I feel it'll be the fans that ruin this series for me I need to have a nap .
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Rick Staff Posts: 379	INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) Aug 31, 2014 14:12:31 GMT Post by Rick on Aug 31, 2014 14:12:31 GMT For a concept that was meant to be unique and new it felt unimaginative and worst of all badly thought out. The difference between good and bad being who you shoot at? The no soldiers line? The whole thing came and went in a blur. No real character moments other then Clara who really has stepped up this season. The Doctor is a hollow play on a few quirks of other Doctors. Scottish accent or not he sounds to this American like Four did. It is like the writers want him to be adult but fail miserably. Shouting, callous behavior and being rude and obnoxious do not make a adult or adult viewing. Doctor Who can be really clever AND entertaining at the same time. All the Doctors are able to be serious AND playful at the same time. Twelve just seems to be Peter Capaldi running about the place. I'm starting to get fed up of being TOLD he's the Doctor and never having him ACT like him. "Am I a good man?" No. No you are not. We've just had a whole era covering that topic. The thing about Eleven was that Moffat made people see the Doctor wasn't a beacon of light, he was as normal as they come. He wasn't good or bad he was somewhere in between but he TRIED to be good and that was what mattered. His image, his name and the memories he left got twisted and made into something different but the Doctor at heart was a man (Time Lord) who did what he believed to be right at any given moment. Whether that was genocide or finding a different way it didn't matter he did what he believed to be right. Now we have a Doctor that doesn't care about life, doesn't care about consequences, doesn't use his head and seems to be the most absent minded (not in the good way) fool we've had for a while. He doesn't run about the place or use humor to defuse a situation like Eleven no. But what kind of idiot goes into a Dalek fixes it and thinks that it'll just be "good"? When faced with a Dalek bringing him tea Eleven never trusted it, Twelve goes inside to prove it can't be good but all the time losing the point that WANTING TO DESTROY DALEKS DOESN'T MAKE IT GOOD. He doesn't even notice that HIS hatred of the Daleks makes him as bad as the Daleks. It was a terribly written story. Peter Capaldi has failed to impress my family. And I have a strange feeling Danny is just going to be another wimp like Rory.
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Rick Staff Posts: 379	INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) Aug 31, 2014 14:23:00 GMT Post by Rick on Aug 31, 2014 14:23:00 GMT Aug 30, 2014 22:39:15 GMT Lucius said: I think the no soldier thing is bullshit. I think its bullshit for many reasons. Firstly its done to death. The Doctor doesn't like soldiers yet he treats his friends like soldiers, he kills when he has to and sometimes when he doesn't have to, he is a warrior and has seen people die in his name..... It's pointless really to hate soldiers. I mean hate wars and hate bad soldiers and hate people who do bad stuff yeah but not just hate a whole occupation. It isn't like he was best friends with a bunch of soldiers, that he was at times a soldier of sorts himself or that he befriends human eating lizards. Secondly I just think the show doesn't need to go there. I'm not anti or pro military but then again I'm not anti or pro dustbin men or farmers or whatever the hell else. It links to the first part, soldiers and the Doctors disdain for them is a long running thing that is done to death. The fact that this Doctor doesn't even seem to want to think about alternatives and just plows ahead not caring who gets hurt in the meantime means he's got less to bellyache about anyway. I think it'll leave a bad taste either way. We're either going down the path of not liking soldiers or making every soldier into a hero. Why can't every PERSON be treated as a individual whether they be a soldier or a shop keeper? Plus lets face it he probably has more of a problem with her because she's rude more then her being a soldier. He wouldn't take her back to her base until she said please and she didn't say please when asking to go with him, she demanded to go with him. I just hope Danny punches him and sends the Twelfth Doctor on a path of getting out of his own ass. Indeed. The Doctor needs to judge people on their individual merits. We never got a indication of what these people had gone through, we knew nothing about them because of the poor writing. As far as I'm concerned Journey was a terrible character and if she'd joined the TARDIS the best time for any character development had been missed because the story didn't want to tell us anything about her other then show her brother dying hours before she goes into the Dalek. The Doctor outwardly saying no because she's a soldier is just poor writing. We get the Doctor wants to be a pacifist and that having a soldier around isn't the best of options for him, but he said it himself that she seemed like a good person. She'd just lost her brother and went on one of the most unique journeys the Doctor is ever going to take. Why tell her that she seems like a good person then say no because she's a soldier? Why not point out that she was rude, that she needed to be with her people, that she needed to grieve her brother? Why was it "I like you but your a soldier so no." If we're going for a pro/anti Military stance I think we need to keep the soldiers out of it. What Journey was doing was trying to save the Aristotle from the Daleks. There is no being a pacifist when it is a Dalek (or Cyberman) army you are facing so what was she meant to do? Preach Peace to a race that the Doctor knows are bred to be evil? As I said it was all down to bad writing though. Never had enough information, not even throw away lines, on the Aristotle or their lives before or during the Dalek invasion. Never had any development of Journey she was just a angry and annoying character. Terrible episode. I'm putting this point at the bottom for a reason. I've not heard the screams of "why is she not breaking down in tears?!" for Journey as I did for Amy. Amy's baby was kidnapped, she then found out her daughter was River Song, someone she's grown to love and respect, but we apparently needed episodes of grieving and coming to terms with that loss. So when Journey's brother dies right next to her where are the tears? Where are the sad moments? Even the moments she got angry because another soldier died she seemed to just be taking a soldiers "respect life" view on it all.
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Rick Staff Posts: 379	INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) Aug 31, 2014 14:27:26 GMT Post by Rick on Aug 31, 2014 14:27:26 GMT Aug 30, 2014 23:53:24 GMT Anna said: Yeah I guess I see where you are coming from. ::Other:: then the line at the end I really didn't get much of a pro/anti vibe from the episode anyway. There are hell of a lot of episodes that have military in them like Nightmare in Silver (which I watched today) so I just took them to be random people really. There have been a lot of "forces" thrown towards the Doctor in recent years so they've just become part and parcel of Doctor Who. Plus as you said it isn't like in the last few years Eleven hasn't made friends with hell of a lot of warriors of one kind or the other. I personally felt he got owned by the soldiers in the Angels two parter, the Pasternosters were introduced as his personal army, Rory was a Centurion even if he was a nurse by nature, you had Lorna Bucket who died for him and so many others. Lets not forget River Song! I just don't think it has been the best start to the season to be honest. Deep Breath felt muddled and now this episode feels completely disjointed. The episode has no real logic to it and the more I watch the more I think they've gone the wrong way. They are focusing the show too much on the Doctor himself. I don't mean arc wise but story wise, too many "moments" that everyone is gushing about that just boil down to "am I a good man?" "I don't know" "but am I good?" "I don't know"... Danny could be a good thing or a bad thing but I'm afraid I feel it'll be bad. Why? Because everyone seems to be so hung up on the fact we've got the amazing Peter Capaldi in the show that everything actually physically needs to be about him and not the Doctor or the adventure or the companion or the fun but him. And I'm sorry but I had never even heard of Capaldi before he was announced as the Doctor and I've only ever seen him in that zombie movie from last year or the year before (his short cameo was forgettable) and as the Cardinal in the Musketeers (which he ruined every scene he was in he was so bland!) That makes me in the wrong though because I should be begging at his feet to be in this terrible show I love so much and isn't he so much better then Eleven who only sat around making jokes and acting like a baby.... I feel it'll be the fans that ruin this series for me I need to have a nap . All good points. As I keep saying the biggest problem with the series so far has been the writing. Deep Breath was fine if bland and predictable, the good thing about Deep Breath was it gave Clara the development she so badly needed. This was the biggest mess I'd ever seen. If the Pasternosters aren't the Doctors private army I don't know what could ever become his private army. They were introduced in a episode where he went to war.They are people who had done bad things that he'd saved and that were doing good to be forgiven. I want Danny to be a good thing for the show. I want him to stick up for himself, for his own opinions. Hopefully he isn't a wet duck like Rory who follows Clara around like a lost dog, he hasn't known her long enough to do that. I really hope this writer doesn't write anything else. It was just terrible. Really terrible. And the directing has gone down as well. Loved series 5 to 7 what happened to the wonderful direction we've gotten used to? Who the hell is directing this crap?
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Anna Staff Posts: 2,716 Hogwarts House: Ravenclaw Who is YOUR Doctor?: 6 (Colin Baker 84-86) Current F1 Driver?: Fernando Alonso	INTO THE DALEK : Build up and LIVE REACTION (30.8.14) Aug 31, 2014 14:48:51 GMT Post by Anna on Aug 31, 2014 14:48:51 GMT There is a lot I agree with you on there Rick but I just CAN'T agree with anyone who see's Rory so one dimensionally. Ever! There was so much more to Rory then being Amy's boyfriend/husband. Being loyal and caring and gentle does not make a man a wimp. Rory quite often voiced his opinion, which differed largely from Eleven's enthusiastic poke it with a stick view and Amy's all guns blazing view. He often wanted to listen to people and find out the truth of situations before he made a move. Yes once or twice he made a bad decision but he was only ever human. He followed Amy because he wanted to be the person to protect her. What would he rather have? Her going off with the Doctor on her own doing dangerous things or him tag along so he can save her? Not only that they took him on his first journey as a "date" and after one taste of what the TARDIS can do would you want to give it up?! Rory was such a great character because he broke the mould of men having to be super strong and the saviour of the world that we've had on TV so much recently. He was a nurse not only as a profession but as a life choice. His dynamic in the team was that of reason. There was never enough of the episode where he was left on his own with the Doctor but when he was oh boy did he teach the Doctor how backwards his views could be! If Danny is anything like what Rory was then we are in for some explosions. Whilst Eleven took what Rory said to heart because he loved Amy as well as Rory the Twelfth Doctor doesn't have any kind of bond with Danny and won't like being told he's wrong by someone he probably isn't going to like much!
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