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Post by Anna on Jul 4, 2013 12:42:02 GMT
How the hell can you say a women with dragons is an underdog?!?! Robb is an underdog and everything you've said about her tragedies are the same as his! Lets see his mother is a cow that FORCED his father to go to Kings Landing, just before his father left his little brother was pushed to his death and only just survived. He was left in charge under his mothers guidance but then his mother went off and left him in charge on his own. Not only that but his mother then started a war, because lets face it she did! His father is beheaded for being a traitor, his sisters are missing or kidnapped, his mother is whispering in his ear for her own good whilst everyone else looks to him to lead them into a battle that she started. He is still young, his family weren't training him to fight the crown or become a king he was the son of a Lord who was going to become a Lord. He hasn't got dragons and at the moment he's fighting for his and his peoples lives against knights and Lords twice/thrice/quadruple his age with a whole war AGAINST THE ******* DRAGONS behind their belts. These are the men that fought with his father to make Robert king in the first place and him at what 14? 15? 16? has been left in charge! Dany was born after the fighting, yes she was orphaned and had a ******* of a brother and had to go and beg but that isn't any different from the beggers on the streets is it? If her brother never talked about being a king she wouldn't know she was any different. She's then married off to a barbarian and falls in love with HIS way of living yet when her brother finally dies and she becomes pregnant she wants to take over a kingdom she's never heard of? She doesn't have to fight for it, she had her Khaleesar and her Sun and Stars or whatever Drogo was. But she makes him decide to fight for her and that kills him and her unborn son. So then what? she hatches ******* dragons. So no she isn't a underdog, the Dothraki were meant to be trained warriors and barbarians, she had an army behind her husband and never needed to fight and when she lost him she got dragons. The only thing Robb has other then Lords who will probably switch sides the moment the fighting goes bad is a direwolf. Dany is not the underdog she's a spoilt princess who at first we had to feel sorry for apparently because she had a horrible brother but after she loses her brother she becomes a ***** who is just as bad as her brother! She's a kid she's been put in an impossible position. Robb was being trained to fight and what the hell does her Dragons have to do with anything? Robb was always going to be a lord, he was trained to be one so what if he hasn't got the respect of the people behind him he's still their lord. There is nothing underdogish about him! You really think the Dothraki would have stood a chance against the steel that the Seven Kingdoms have? You are meant to get behind Dany it is the whole point of her story is you are meant to feel for her and her hardships. Why do you think you don't get a PoV from Robb? Because he isn't important in the long game. Dany has never had anything and now all she has is the Dragons and she's going to go and win back what belongs to her. How can you not get behind her? What impossible position was she put in? Getting married to a Dothraki? Well that turned out well didn't it? He loved her and looked after her until her DECISION to take over the 7 Kingdoms killed him. Having an abusive brother? He got killed by Drogo and yes it was sad that her brother was a ******* to her when she was growing up but it happens and he gave her the husband she loved so he wasn't all that bad (even if he did it for a bad reason). Wanting to go to war in the Seven Kingdoms? THAT IS HER OWN BLOODY CHOICE! Yes Robb was trained to be a Lord but that doesn't mean he was ready for war, ready for the hard decisions he's FORCED to make. He has no choice she does. Why can't I get behind her? Because to be honest she seems like a spoilt brat. "I'm the Dragon I deserve to be the Queen of people I've never seen, of a Kingdom I've never been too." I do believe you two should know what a difference of opinion is? To be honest with ya both there ain't no under dog in GoT.Anna is right, Dany has put herself in that position, Robb didn't have a choice. Robb had choices but war with the Lannisters/Baratheons/Others was on his doorstep no matter what. He was left in charge because his fathers head ended up on a spike in Kings Landing, he was too young and was followed by bad advice and differing needs. His mother only wanted what was best for her, his liege Lords only cared about their opinion, Ned Stark lead them to battle on the Trident, Ned Stark was the man they all listened to, Robb was a boy, younger then most of their own sons, leading battle worn men into battle before he'd even really learnt how to use his sword. Robb stands at the front of his army because it is his duty to do so. Dany is making her army and stands at the front of it because she choice to follow the path her brother told them was their birth right. It was not their birth right, the throne now belongs to the Stags and if she had (as Anna rightfully points out) been content with being a Princess to the Dothraki with a husband that loved her and a child she wouldn't need to be portrayed as an underdog because she'd have had her hearts content.Saying that the definition of a underdog is someone with little chance of winning a fight.The Lannisters/Starks/Baratheons all have their armies but they are used to fighting each other. Dany now has an army who the Lords of the Seven Kingdoms never have dreamt of fighting. They all could win, after all everyone has chosen a side (I'm with Stannis) and can find countless points in the story that'll prove that their side will win. Personally I don't think any of them can win because winter IS coming and they are too busy killing their strong men and burning their crops to survive that threat, they've closed their eyes to it a little bit. There is nothing like a good heated debate between friends though . You've said it better then I could! Robb's decisions have been made for him by events around him, Dany just decided because her brother had this need to be King she's going to be Queen. It wasn't even believable in my opinion, she went from craving that house with the red door to wanting the whole Seven Kingdoms? I was with her character up until an unexplained change of heart. Surely after craving a home like the one with the red door finding her home with the Dothraki would be all she needed? You are behind Stannis? Interesting, any reasons why? I'm not that far ahead and from the TV show I know that the person I'm currently behind (Robb) is dead so I don't know who I'll end up supporting by the last book so far! I do find Stannis interesting though, he's so honorable but cold. You are meant to get behind Dany it is the whole point of her story is you are meant to feel for her and her hardships. Why do you think you don't get a PoV from Robb? Because he isn't important in the long game. This I strongly disagree with. Robb is a very important character. He is one of the major characters in the story but we only ever see him through other peoples eyes for a good reason. People easily got behind Robb and his campaign (fan wise) because he was doing the "right" thing. The right thing for the people of the north, the right thing in honor of his family and the right thing as a human being. Now take Anna's dislike for Bran. First off stick with him Anna because he is a lot more interesting then he appears for a lot of the first two books! But in my opinion the problem ya have with the boy is that you can't empathize with him. As a (don't be offended please) "broken" person yourself BORN that way like Tyrion you are of the opinion that he needs to "get over" his disability. You get behind Tyrion because he's embraced his difference like you and Pete have but Bran sits in his tower feeling sorry for himself. It is something that you dislike about Harry Potter as well if I remember correctly. Of course there needs to be a healing period for Bran, he wants to be a knight and his dream has been dashed. He was a fully healthy boy that loved climbing now he can't even walk. But you dislike him because he sits about feeling sorry for himself even when faced with someone like Tyrion. Now imagine if we only saw Bran through the eyes of his mother or later on Osha? You'd never have to hear him feeling bad for himself and it might even look like he is "getting over" or "gotten over" his disability. Because we are inside his head though we know he's a petulant child (with good cause to be one) Robb probably feels the same way in a different manner. He probably didn't want to go to war, he probably hated having his mother around, whispering in his ear, changing her mind, going against his wishes. Robb could have been the most annoying character in the book, but we never had to deal with what went on in his head so he lived as the hero and died as a hero. I've always looked at it as a direct comparison to Tywin Lannister personally. Neither get a PoV chapter but both have every other member of their family as a PoV character (with the exception of minor Lannisters and Rickon) Now Tywin is a bad guy, we know this, all Lannisters seem to have a dark side and he is a ******* of the highest degree. Worshiped and hated by his kids in the same breath. Robb is a good guy, his family respect him and love him and the people follow him because he's brave and stands for honor. We get their stories from others but in a way we get a fuller picture of them both as we don't get hung up with the moral dilemma's and personalities that the PoV characters have. They are both VERY important characters, two strong characters and their stories are integral to the whole story. To base their worth on whether they are PoV characters is silly. First off I don't dislike Bran I find him boring, I'm stuck on his chapter at the moment. There is only one character I openly dislike and that is his mother! But it is true, not only because I am deaf and had to get over it, I just don't like people feeling so sorry for themselves, I've had to deal with it my whole life and it annoys me to hell and back. I agree with you completely though about Tywin/Robb it is important to have strong characters away from the PoV as well. They are a really good direct comparison. There is no way either of them could be classed as "unimportant".
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